Changes to Saxton Hale

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I've synced the server files with our FastDL server, so all models and sounds will work now.
 
I think it may be better to reduce the crits buildup or make it so an engineer has to feed the amp.
 
What I mean is that is the only way the amp can build crits is for the engineer to feed it.
 
Somewhat off-topic: Should we switch from VSH to Freak Fortress to allow for more features and new/different bosses?
 
I wouldn't nerf the Amplifier, as nobody really uses it the way it is unless the server has a rare full-player spike, and only for cheese strats. I think it should be one-shottable instead of two, however. I have a set of class-based suggestions to make gameplay better as well:

Scout:
- Prevent the Force-A-Nature from getting crit-boosted, and perhaps also prevent it from getting minicrits too. Right now, if a FAN scout gets last-man crits, he's able to keep Hale away forever by barely shooting him. Not fun to play against, not fufilling to play as.

Solider:
- Buff the Bison.
- Buff the Equalizer.

Pyro:
- Give mini-crits (or crits) on the Flamethrowers. Pyro does painfully low damage, as he can't get close to Hale without spamming airblast and flare-jumping away, and there is little reward to actually use the Flamethrower as a weapon. This change could adjust that, encouraging Pyros to do damage using their flamethrowers.

Demo:
- Allow Demomen with the boots to regain shield over time, should they lose it. The boots are currently useless, as Valve made it where without the shield, the Demo speed boost from the boots is removed.

Heavy
- Needs more survivability. Going Heavy is a deathwish in his current form, generally netting little damage as well. I feel like he needs to be more fun, as camping in a corridor with an engineer or medic is the only way to currently play him. Perhaps nerf GRU damage, or add a new mechanic using fists?

Medic:
- Medic should have double-overheal. Other servers have this mechanic and it's pretty balanced. This could also solve Heavy's survival issue, but I don't think it's best to have a class solely rely on another to survive.
- Re-add Medic's ability on all Medi-Guns to rocket-jump with his pocket, akin to the Quick-fix. This used to exist on the server, but an update seemed to have removed it.

Spy:
- Increase the recharge time on the Dead Ringer or buff it's resistance. There's no reason to use it as is - as Hale can easily find you and kill you when it runs out, plus you'd already be put down to 60 hp.
- Remove the damage resistance on the Invis. Watch and give it a speed boost instead, which it had intitially, but has since been replaced. This made fighting invis watch spies a lot more fun and less infuriating, and also allowed for spies to get better access to backstabs.

This is all I have for now, probably have more later. Also, I support a change to Freak Fortress if it means better stability going forward, along with the ability for a few new bosses.
 
I also want the hale rage to be changed into him becoming immune to all knockback and increasing his move speed slightly as opposed to flat out disabling everything around him, although he should still disable sentries. Perhaps he should also kill anyone that touches him.

Also, remove crits from demomen grenade launchers, simply put its complete bullshit.


in reply to the post above me:

Amp needs a tune down to minicrits, agree with the one shot thing.

Scout- agreed. FaN is unbleiavably frustrating and deserves a dmg nerf if the knockback is left untouched.

Soldier- these changes are not needed. Soldier has so much variety as it is, he can do almost anything any other class can do in this game mode.

Demo- absolutely not. Would make demomen camp more and become unkillable.

Heavy- agree fully, I would like to have him have some lifesteal mechanic on melee, and he gains a large but short lived burst of speed when he get some punched.

Medic- agree.

Spy- agree for invis, disagree for dead ringer changes. The dead ringer is fine the way it is.

xrk said:
Somewhat off-topic: Should we switch from VSH to Freak Fortress to allow for more features and new/different bosses?
Click to expand...

Might as well as long as it doesn't become a meme shitfest.
 
To keep this going:

- Amp with changes seems good. One-shot and mini-crits would better tune it.

- Demo only has crits when he has a shield equipped. If you remove the crit-boost from the Grenade Launcher, you'll be making the shields even more useless than currently. It seems when Hale's range was buffed, Demoknight died in viability. Demo's meta strat currently is to run away from Hale with the shield and shoot crit grenades at him. If shields become useless (blocking one hit isn't useful anymore, Hale will just hit you again with krazy range) by the removal of the crit function, Demo becomes much less useful, dealing little damage along with loss of escape option on breaking the shield.
So, I propose a different change:
- Make shields give mini-crits to the grenade launcher instead of crits
- Give stickybomb launchers mini-crits.
This gives Demo a viable damage-dealing option whether it's the grenades or the stickybombs, but you can have only one. It also gives Demo one viable escape option (even though the shield can be broken, hopefully the mini-crits would make up for it). Therefore, both grenade-knight and full-demo would be made viable, which leaves full-knight (boots, shield, sword) to be fixed. However, I believe it could only be fixed if Hale's range was reverted to standard.

- I threw in those two Solider weapons for little reason, but useless weapons should be made viable over time. A dream vision would for every weapon to have a purpose in Saxton Hale, in order to prevent community stagnancy.

- I feel Heavy should either get a speed boost when he hits Hale with his fist, or Hale should get pushed away from Heavy. Heal on hit could also work, but it wouldn't work by itself without being underpowered or overpowered.

- I still stand strong on buffing the Dead Ringer, it is not fine the way it is. Any Hale worth his weight can easily track down and kill a Dead Ringer spy with no issues, where an invis. watch user, even if the proposed change was added, would have a much larger chance of surviving.
 
Keeping indie's discussion going:

Amp- glad you agree.

Demo- Much better suggestion, still overall disagree with any dmg buff to nade launcher, but to start somewhere that seems good.

Soldier- making every weapon viable in hale is extremely difficult, maybe at a later date we can look at thos echanges.

Heavy- agreed.

Spy- A spy can jump before he gets hit and fly into a different direction altogether. I suggest increasing the speed boost bonus of getting hit and removing the dmg resistance buff.
 
Spy - Removing the dmg resist would mean you'd die when hit. Also, jumping as you get hit works very little, as most Hales just wait for you to land to hit you. I think the speed boot would work IF the Dead Ringer was made silent.
 
Heavy should move at the same speed as Medic, but at the cost of 50 health, so always starting at 250 hp but he will have the chance of escape from Hale.
 
There's a glitch in the current Saxton Hale where his Super Jump sound effect is only in a small vicinity of Hale, so if he jumps across the map he can stomp/land beside you without making a sound.
 
Also the liberty launchers self damage should be increased due to Soldiers constantly jumping away and grabbing health kits.
 
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